<Comment deleted by user>
@JesusChristisHope said in #48::
> Donya said something very interesting. He said that our body turns to dust, and then we return to God when we die. That's partly true. The Bible (God's Word to Us: spoken through holy men) clearly talks about the life to come, you just need to search. There are three verses which seem to apply to this situation:
>
> 1) John 6:40 - "Everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I myself will raise him up on the last day."
>
> 2) 2 Peter 3:7 - "The present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men."
>
> 3) Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
>
> So these verses make it clear. We will obviously die, and we will go somewhere else once we die. However, where we go depends on one thing. BELIEVING IN CHRIST AND MAKING HIM OUR LORD. If we don't do that, we will still live, but in eternal judgment.
>
> So how do we understand it simply? Here's the answer. Everyone is going to live forever, believe it or not. But their are two places to live forever in. The first is hell, where everyone will go. Since we sin (disobey God's commands), we will receive that wrath of God in hell. But God gave us another opportunity. He sent his only Son to die for us, in order that, when we believe in his Son, we will receive heaven. And, by the way, we are not going to be sitting on a cloud singing "Kumbya" the whole time! In heaven, we will receive the blessings of God, being able to rule with him in a new kingdom (world), and be able to worship him forever.
>
> So where does your soul go when you die. It depends.
>
> It depends on whether YOU BELIEVE in the ONLY way to get to heaven, through Jesus Christ.
>
> If you have any questions, feel free to ask me at @JesusChristisHope
Where's the proof of that? What you described is only what the Christian religion believes in. Key word being believes.
> Donya said something very interesting. He said that our body turns to dust, and then we return to God when we die. That's partly true. The Bible (God's Word to Us: spoken through holy men) clearly talks about the life to come, you just need to search. There are three verses which seem to apply to this situation:
>
> 1) John 6:40 - "Everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I myself will raise him up on the last day."
>
> 2) 2 Peter 3:7 - "The present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men."
>
> 3) Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
>
> So these verses make it clear. We will obviously die, and we will go somewhere else once we die. However, where we go depends on one thing. BELIEVING IN CHRIST AND MAKING HIM OUR LORD. If we don't do that, we will still live, but in eternal judgment.
>
> So how do we understand it simply? Here's the answer. Everyone is going to live forever, believe it or not. But their are two places to live forever in. The first is hell, where everyone will go. Since we sin (disobey God's commands), we will receive that wrath of God in hell. But God gave us another opportunity. He sent his only Son to die for us, in order that, when we believe in his Son, we will receive heaven. And, by the way, we are not going to be sitting on a cloud singing "Kumbya" the whole time! In heaven, we will receive the blessings of God, being able to rule with him in a new kingdom (world), and be able to worship him forever.
>
> So where does your soul go when you die. It depends.
>
> It depends on whether YOU BELIEVE in the ONLY way to get to heaven, through Jesus Christ.
>
> If you have any questions, feel free to ask me at @JesusChristisHope
Where's the proof of that? What you described is only what the Christian religion believes in. Key word being believes.
@JesusChristisHope
But that's according to Bible and so Christians would believe it. That doesn't tell why others should agree with it. And please don't start religious debate with your words.
But that's according to Bible and so Christians would believe it. That doesn't tell why others should agree with it. And please don't start religious debate with your words.
> That's partly true. The Bible (God's Word to Us: spoken through holy men) clearly talks about the life to come, you just need to search
@JesusChristisHope why what bible says matters to what actually happens? Why do you think it's word of god if you can't even demonstrate God exists, let alone cares to talk to us.
@JesusChristisHope why what bible says matters to what actually happens? Why do you think it's word of god if you can't even demonstrate God exists, let alone cares to talk to us.
@Negmek @StateYourPoint @Akbar2thegreat
You are actually bringing precisely the question that I hoped someone would ask. The question you are asking has been asked for 1000's of years, what makes Scripture (the Bible) authoritative?
First, you can start with the fact that the Bible has NEVER been proven wrong. And its been proven to be correct (archeological, history, prophecy, etc.) HUNDREDS of times!
Secondly, you can point to the fact that Jesus disciples themselves wrote the Bible. They walked with him, talked with him, and EVEN DIED FOR HIM! (This is all proven.)
Thirdly, there is STRONG PROOF THAT JESUS ROSE FROM THE DEAD, and completed supernatural deeds (miracles).
Fourthly, the Bible is the #1 MOST PRESERVED ANCIENT WORK. We have over 20,000 ancient copies of the Bible, in greek, latin, and Hebrew. You know how many copies #2 comes in at? About 2000!
So, tell me, how do you argue that the Bible and Jesus Christ are not authoritative? Jesus Christ did things NO REGULAR HUMAN COULD DO! Jesus Christ must be followed, or, as you will discover, you will receive the judgement of God.
If anyone has any questions, I would love to try to answer them.
From: @JesusChristisHope
You are actually bringing precisely the question that I hoped someone would ask. The question you are asking has been asked for 1000's of years, what makes Scripture (the Bible) authoritative?
First, you can start with the fact that the Bible has NEVER been proven wrong. And its been proven to be correct (archeological, history, prophecy, etc.) HUNDREDS of times!
Secondly, you can point to the fact that Jesus disciples themselves wrote the Bible. They walked with him, talked with him, and EVEN DIED FOR HIM! (This is all proven.)
Thirdly, there is STRONG PROOF THAT JESUS ROSE FROM THE DEAD, and completed supernatural deeds (miracles).
Fourthly, the Bible is the #1 MOST PRESERVED ANCIENT WORK. We have over 20,000 ancient copies of the Bible, in greek, latin, and Hebrew. You know how many copies #2 comes in at? About 2000!
So, tell me, how do you argue that the Bible and Jesus Christ are not authoritative? Jesus Christ did things NO REGULAR HUMAN COULD DO! Jesus Christ must be followed, or, as you will discover, you will receive the judgement of God.
If anyone has any questions, I would love to try to answer them.
From: @JesusChristisHope
@JesusChristisHope
I understand that you are a high supporter of Christ as is evident from your username.
I am not demeaning you but don't indulge me in the conversation which would potentially harmful your beliefs. I would try refraining as much as I can.
Bible has been proved wrong by modern science.
Check this out:
www.quora.com/If-the-Bible-has-been-proven-wrong-by-modern-science-why-do-people-still-believe-it
Also read:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Bible#The_Bible_and_science
I am a theist but point number 2 is simply baseless.
I would say same for 3rd but not harming your identity and belief.
And regarding 4th, there are many ancient works well preserved. I don't know whether you are telling the truth or not. Where's the proof?
I understand that you are a high supporter of Christ as is evident from your username.
I am not demeaning you but don't indulge me in the conversation which would potentially harmful your beliefs. I would try refraining as much as I can.
Bible has been proved wrong by modern science.
Check this out:
www.quora.com/If-the-Bible-has-been-proven-wrong-by-modern-science-why-do-people-still-believe-it
Also read:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Bible#The_Bible_and_science
I am a theist but point number 2 is simply baseless.
I would say same for 3rd but not harming your identity and belief.
And regarding 4th, there are many ancient works well preserved. I don't know whether you are telling the truth or not. Where's the proof?
@Akbar2thegreat
Thank you for trying to be respectful, but the truth is the truth, for everyone. So don't worry about me.
1) I looked at Quora & Wikipedia, and all the proofs given were rebuttal, may you bring one particular one up?
2) #2 discredits the notion that the disciples were lying, because who would die for something they KNOW is a lie? Do you want proof that Jesus's disciples died for him?
3). Here's three of many reasons that support Jesus rose from the dead
First, the Disciples died for their beliefs. (See above.) Would you die for a lie? Why would 12 people die for a lie?
Second, even skeptics, (such as Paul), became Christians, and died for their beliefs.
Third, it is known that prophecies foretold of a Messiah around 700 b.c.
4) Here's some proofs:
truthchallenge.com/statement/bible/best-preserved-work-antiquity-2/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_manuscript#:~:text=The%20New%20Testament%20has%20been,%2C%20Ethiopic%2C%20Coptic%20and%20Armenian
I hope this helps. I'll be back online next week if you would like to discuss it further.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him WILL NOT PERISH, but HAVE ETERNAL LIFE."
- John 3:16
Thank you for trying to be respectful, but the truth is the truth, for everyone. So don't worry about me.
1) I looked at Quora & Wikipedia, and all the proofs given were rebuttal, may you bring one particular one up?
2) #2 discredits the notion that the disciples were lying, because who would die for something they KNOW is a lie? Do you want proof that Jesus's disciples died for him?
3). Here's three of many reasons that support Jesus rose from the dead
First, the Disciples died for their beliefs. (See above.) Would you die for a lie? Why would 12 people die for a lie?
Second, even skeptics, (such as Paul), became Christians, and died for their beliefs.
Third, it is known that prophecies foretold of a Messiah around 700 b.c.
4) Here's some proofs:
truthchallenge.com/statement/bible/best-preserved-work-antiquity-2/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_manuscript#:~:text=The%20New%20Testament%20has%20been,%2C%20Ethiopic%2C%20Coptic%20and%20Armenian
I hope this helps. I'll be back online next week if you would like to discuss it further.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him WILL NOT PERISH, but HAVE ETERNAL LIFE."
- John 3:16
> First, you can start with the fact that the Bible has NEVER been proven wrong.
Bible endorses slavery, and I think it's wrong.
The order of events in genesis is wrong.
Noahs flood never happened.
People deduce from the bible earth is 6000 years old, that's wrong.
According to Jesus world was supposed to end 1800 years ago. That didn't happen.
And after all that there are contradictions within the bible itself, which is to say, bible proves itself to be wrong:
***
“... the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4
“... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10
***
“... I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30
“No man hath seen God at any time...”– John 1:18
***
“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter...it is a wicked thing....” — Leviticus 20:17
“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife...I bless her, and give thee a son also of her...” — Genesis 17:15-16 (Sara was Abraham's father's daughter)
***
“... with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26
“...The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19
***
So yeah, to me it looks more like bible is a bunch of garbage written by iron age tribesmen.
The real issue is why can't you make a point yourself and instead resort to saying that nobody has proven you wrong. Maybe nobobody cared to prove you wrong. That doesnt mean you're right. Or maybe they did prove you wrong, you just never bothered to even read the Good Book in the first place.
> First, the Disciples died for their beliefs. (See above.) Would you die for a lie?
Uhh, Muslims kill themselves in defense of their faith all the time, why would they lie? Oh, I know, they aren't lying about what they believe. They are simply wrong. How do you think, can that happen?
> you can point to the fact that Jesus disciples themselves wrote the Bible
This is also false, even if you assume Jesus actually existed and had disciples. Not going into detail about this because even if this was true, it would in no way show Jesus is divine, and therefore would add no credibility to it.
> Third, it is known that prophecies foretold of a Messiah around 700 b.c.
Do Jews agree with you? Do you agree with Muslims about Islamic prophesies? By what criteria do you determine what is a prophecy and what just someone else religion that you don't believe?
But even if I grant you that Jesus was real, and bible was written shortly after the events by eyewitnesses, and if I grant you that there are no mistakes verifiable in the bible, and even if bible makes prophesies that came true, with all that you only can say that the bible got stuff right. Even if the book was right about everything else doesn't, it doesn't automatically prove that it's also right about other things that cannot be verified.
Which is to say bible is so utterly irrelevant, that you should be ashamed of bringing it up.
Bible endorses slavery, and I think it's wrong.
The order of events in genesis is wrong.
Noahs flood never happened.
People deduce from the bible earth is 6000 years old, that's wrong.
According to Jesus world was supposed to end 1800 years ago. That didn't happen.
And after all that there are contradictions within the bible itself, which is to say, bible proves itself to be wrong:
***
“... the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4
“... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10
***
“... I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30
“No man hath seen God at any time...”– John 1:18
***
“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter...it is a wicked thing....” — Leviticus 20:17
“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife...I bless her, and give thee a son also of her...” — Genesis 17:15-16 (Sara was Abraham's father's daughter)
***
“... with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26
“...The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19
***
So yeah, to me it looks more like bible is a bunch of garbage written by iron age tribesmen.
The real issue is why can't you make a point yourself and instead resort to saying that nobody has proven you wrong. Maybe nobobody cared to prove you wrong. That doesnt mean you're right. Or maybe they did prove you wrong, you just never bothered to even read the Good Book in the first place.
> First, the Disciples died for their beliefs. (See above.) Would you die for a lie?
Uhh, Muslims kill themselves in defense of their faith all the time, why would they lie? Oh, I know, they aren't lying about what they believe. They are simply wrong. How do you think, can that happen?
> you can point to the fact that Jesus disciples themselves wrote the Bible
This is also false, even if you assume Jesus actually existed and had disciples. Not going into detail about this because even if this was true, it would in no way show Jesus is divine, and therefore would add no credibility to it.
> Third, it is known that prophecies foretold of a Messiah around 700 b.c.
Do Jews agree with you? Do you agree with Muslims about Islamic prophesies? By what criteria do you determine what is a prophecy and what just someone else religion that you don't believe?
But even if I grant you that Jesus was real, and bible was written shortly after the events by eyewitnesses, and if I grant you that there are no mistakes verifiable in the bible, and even if bible makes prophesies that came true, with all that you only can say that the bible got stuff right. Even if the book was right about everything else doesn't, it doesn't automatically prove that it's also right about other things that cannot be verified.
Which is to say bible is so utterly irrelevant, that you should be ashamed of bringing it up.
@Negmek
1. The Bible doesn't endorse slavery, it accepts it as normal, which it was for the longest time.
2. What makes you think Genesis was written in chronological order?
3. Noah's Flood Didn't Happen? First, scientists admit that a major world disaster had occurred (what killed off the dinosaurs?) And frankly, is it a coincidence that almost all older religions and traditions believe their was a flood? And we haven't even gotten into archeological evidence.
4. Jesus never said the world was supposed to end at 200 a.d.
So-called contradiction #1 - the Bible teaches a new heaven and earth at the end of this world.
So-called contradiction #2 - No one has seen God's glory, but God has revealed himself to us in other ways, such as Jesus.
So-called contradiction #3 - I see no proof that Sara was Abraham's relative, and remember, God gave that command AFTER Abraham had lived.
So-called contradiction #4 - God doesn't always give us what we want, even if he if with us. He knowns best.
Muslims die for what they THINK is the truth. Frankly, the disciples died for what they knew was the truth or what was a lie. If it was a lie, they would have known. But they sacrificed anyway. Would you do that? Would 11 out of 11 men do that?
You don't believe Jesus existed? Where do you think b.c. and a.d came from? (bc stands for "Before Christ," and ad stands for "Anno Domini" "The Year of our Lord") Google It! Besides, Jesus disciples or their associates that were living and watching Christ were the ones that wrote the Bible. Give me an example otherwise.
Isaiah 53 (A Prophecy) is a passage that has converted so many Jewish rabies that it is a forbidden text in Jewish synagogues. Many Jews just don't want to face the facts. A prophecy means nothing unless it is actually fulfilled. And frankly, the chances of a person fulfilling biblical prophecies? 1 in a trillion trillion.
the Bible teaches that God only saves those that he was chosen. I hope that you will fear for your soul.
@JesusChristisHope
1. The Bible doesn't endorse slavery, it accepts it as normal, which it was for the longest time.
2. What makes you think Genesis was written in chronological order?
3. Noah's Flood Didn't Happen? First, scientists admit that a major world disaster had occurred (what killed off the dinosaurs?) And frankly, is it a coincidence that almost all older religions and traditions believe their was a flood? And we haven't even gotten into archeological evidence.
4. Jesus never said the world was supposed to end at 200 a.d.
So-called contradiction #1 - the Bible teaches a new heaven and earth at the end of this world.
So-called contradiction #2 - No one has seen God's glory, but God has revealed himself to us in other ways, such as Jesus.
So-called contradiction #3 - I see no proof that Sara was Abraham's relative, and remember, God gave that command AFTER Abraham had lived.
So-called contradiction #4 - God doesn't always give us what we want, even if he if with us. He knowns best.
Muslims die for what they THINK is the truth. Frankly, the disciples died for what they knew was the truth or what was a lie. If it was a lie, they would have known. But they sacrificed anyway. Would you do that? Would 11 out of 11 men do that?
You don't believe Jesus existed? Where do you think b.c. and a.d came from? (bc stands for "Before Christ," and ad stands for "Anno Domini" "The Year of our Lord") Google It! Besides, Jesus disciples or their associates that were living and watching Christ were the ones that wrote the Bible. Give me an example otherwise.
Isaiah 53 (A Prophecy) is a passage that has converted so many Jewish rabies that it is a forbidden text in Jewish synagogues. Many Jews just don't want to face the facts. A prophecy means nothing unless it is actually fulfilled. And frankly, the chances of a person fulfilling biblical prophecies? 1 in a trillion trillion.
the Bible teaches that God only saves those that he was chosen. I hope that you will fear for your soul.
@JesusChristisHope
1) "Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord." Colossians 3:22
there you have it, a quote that is WRONG in the bible
2) I dont think so. Thats my point, bible account is wrong.
3) Everything you said here is nonsense. Dinosaurs didnt die to a flood. Myths arent evidence. Theres no archaelogical evidence, thats why you decided not to get into it. Besides the noah ark is ridicilous concept anywy, so even if flood happend, noah didnt save animals in the way bible tells us he did.
4) "Truly I tell you, this generation [greek: genea] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away." — Matt. 24:34-35; Mark 13:30-31; Luke 21:32-33
Sorry, he said it will happen in the first century.
1) No, it doesnt say heaven or new earth, it says "the earth abideth for ever". You are experiencing cognitive dissonance.
2) No, it doesnt say "gods glory", it says "god". “No man hath seen God at any time...” Cant you read, or do you think im so stupid i cant?
3) I see no proof any of them ever existed. This is all according to what bible says. And bible was never proven wrong, hahah
4) It literally says "could not", are you fucking kidding me?
> Muslims die for what they THINK is the truth.
Holy hell, thats exactly what apostoles died. For what they THOUGHT was the truth. Thats my point, lol, how are you not getting it?
> the disciples died for what they knew was the truth or what was a lie
Or they died for what they THOUGHT was the truth.
> If it was a lie, they would have known.
And plane hijakers would have known that they wont get 72 virgins after they fly a plane into a building. But they flew it anyway. Would you do that? Would 13 out of 13 men do that? ... Truth of islam proven by impeccable logic of you lord jesus.
> Where do you think b.c. and a.d came from
Because people believed he existed, lol, and assigned an arbitrary date. But again, even if he existed, doesnt mean he was divine.
> And frankly, the chances of a person fulfilling biblical prophecies? 1 in a trillion trillion.
Always cracks me up when christians try to do probability calculations. Again, muslims have their own profecies, why dont you believe those? You just want to face the facts? Meanwhile there are still jew who dont believe any of thm. Why did christianity spread so much? Because of crusades and forced conversions. No 1/1000000000000000000000000 chance required.
> the Bible teaches that God only saves those that he was chosen. I hope that you will fear for your soul.
I hope you will learn the value of intellectual honesty or at least learn to read. When "but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron" becomes "God doesn't always give us what we want, even if he if with us. He knowns best.", or “No man hath seen God at any time...” becomes "No one has seen God's glory" that means you have real issues buddy.
there you have it, a quote that is WRONG in the bible
2) I dont think so. Thats my point, bible account is wrong.
3) Everything you said here is nonsense. Dinosaurs didnt die to a flood. Myths arent evidence. Theres no archaelogical evidence, thats why you decided not to get into it. Besides the noah ark is ridicilous concept anywy, so even if flood happend, noah didnt save animals in the way bible tells us he did.
4) "Truly I tell you, this generation [greek: genea] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away." — Matt. 24:34-35; Mark 13:30-31; Luke 21:32-33
Sorry, he said it will happen in the first century.
1) No, it doesnt say heaven or new earth, it says "the earth abideth for ever". You are experiencing cognitive dissonance.
2) No, it doesnt say "gods glory", it says "god". “No man hath seen God at any time...” Cant you read, or do you think im so stupid i cant?
3) I see no proof any of them ever existed. This is all according to what bible says. And bible was never proven wrong, hahah
4) It literally says "could not", are you fucking kidding me?
> Muslims die for what they THINK is the truth.
Holy hell, thats exactly what apostoles died. For what they THOUGHT was the truth. Thats my point, lol, how are you not getting it?
> the disciples died for what they knew was the truth or what was a lie
Or they died for what they THOUGHT was the truth.
> If it was a lie, they would have known.
And plane hijakers would have known that they wont get 72 virgins after they fly a plane into a building. But they flew it anyway. Would you do that? Would 13 out of 13 men do that? ... Truth of islam proven by impeccable logic of you lord jesus.
> Where do you think b.c. and a.d came from
Because people believed he existed, lol, and assigned an arbitrary date. But again, even if he existed, doesnt mean he was divine.
> And frankly, the chances of a person fulfilling biblical prophecies? 1 in a trillion trillion.
Always cracks me up when christians try to do probability calculations. Again, muslims have their own profecies, why dont you believe those? You just want to face the facts? Meanwhile there are still jew who dont believe any of thm. Why did christianity spread so much? Because of crusades and forced conversions. No 1/1000000000000000000000000 chance required.
> the Bible teaches that God only saves those that he was chosen. I hope that you will fear for your soul.
I hope you will learn the value of intellectual honesty or at least learn to read. When "but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron" becomes "God doesn't always give us what we want, even if he if with us. He knowns best.", or “No man hath seen God at any time...” becomes "No one has seen God's glory" that means you have real issues buddy.
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