> They are not even good moves
They are variations in your own move tree. You can clear them here:
They are variations in your own move tree. You can clear them here:
Unfortunately, if you request a computer analysis, all variations and mainline(s) generated in process will be displayed. The new feature could be useful, but The Toggle Button for "new arrows" is needed for the same reason we can turn off treats.
P.S. I think that chess was never so vivid and colorful before.
P.S. I think that chess was never so vivid and colorful before.
In correspondance games, we can easily control variation ordering while thinking our moves.. we may have multiple thinking session on the same move (sometimes, the fertile sleep on it opportinity).
Remark in passing (not main point here, but developping on the idea of fine variation ordering control).
In studies, which has its own under the hood extra features possible entangling in code, such fine grain variation ordering control is tedious... (promote mouse pointed, or finger touched, variation context menu does not behave as in standalone analysis).
I have been playing correspondence mostly on lichess since 2019, my lichess birth (also online chess community awareness).
I have welcome the (local machine) putative user created variation imagation memory that lichess has implemented lately as something that had been missing since i started playing.. I was using conditional premove to keep my putative work in progress variations for a while, as either lichess of the browsers then were in the habit of refresshing rendered tabs deeply enough to wipe out user created variations in progress. I was doing a lot of variation exploration, until i realized that calculation, even if with lots of napkins to take notes as wet memory extension, was not how I would understand chess efficiently....
But even without going maximal bush fractal exploration, having reasonable candidates in 2D visual field when still pondering a more, and having the time to wait across energy burst (mine are small, nowadays, low stamina... same reason some might prefer bullet for example, no time for full games.. so a move expreience in correspondance might be a whole bullet game experience in daily budget on other people).
Therefore, even without having yet tested the features.. just reading this thread and another one, I welcome any new visual redundancy signal, that would help me reorient at a glance, and sync in my wet brain (mind's eye), the string full user move tree of variations, with board correlated signals... It makes from tidy and less interuptions at micro-manageing board to SAN code tree correspondance, so our train of thoughts only has little time to waste on aiming right into a variation being evaluated for its bestness according to me, and comparaing across variation (having that also linked to mouse or keyboard arrows would be paradise for smooth attention dispatching).
there grind the above through some AI for a smooth version... ironing out my experssion quirks (accidental or not).
bravo lichess for trying... let us be helpers in not asking for annihilation when things are not perfect...I have not read all posts.. but the starting titles and first posts, might be telling.. no i my 1000 cents.. here.
Remark in passing (not main point here, but developping on the idea of fine variation ordering control).
In studies, which has its own under the hood extra features possible entangling in code, such fine grain variation ordering control is tedious... (promote mouse pointed, or finger touched, variation context menu does not behave as in standalone analysis).
I have been playing correspondence mostly on lichess since 2019, my lichess birth (also online chess community awareness).
I have welcome the (local machine) putative user created variation imagation memory that lichess has implemented lately as something that had been missing since i started playing.. I was using conditional premove to keep my putative work in progress variations for a while, as either lichess of the browsers then were in the habit of refresshing rendered tabs deeply enough to wipe out user created variations in progress. I was doing a lot of variation exploration, until i realized that calculation, even if with lots of napkins to take notes as wet memory extension, was not how I would understand chess efficiently....
But even without going maximal bush fractal exploration, having reasonable candidates in 2D visual field when still pondering a more, and having the time to wait across energy burst (mine are small, nowadays, low stamina... same reason some might prefer bullet for example, no time for full games.. so a move expreience in correspondance might be a whole bullet game experience in daily budget on other people).
Therefore, even without having yet tested the features.. just reading this thread and another one, I welcome any new visual redundancy signal, that would help me reorient at a glance, and sync in my wet brain (mind's eye), the string full user move tree of variations, with board correlated signals... It makes from tidy and less interuptions at micro-manageing board to SAN code tree correspondance, so our train of thoughts only has little time to waste on aiming right into a variation being evaluated for its bestness according to me, and comparaing across variation (having that also linked to mouse or keyboard arrows would be paradise for smooth attention dispatching).
there grind the above through some AI for a smooth version... ironing out my experssion quirks (accidental or not).
bravo lichess for trying... let us be helpers in not asking for annihilation when things are not perfect...I have not read all posts.. but the starting titles and first posts, might be telling.. no i my 1000 cents.. here.
@schlawg said in #57:
> The point is to make navigation among variations in analysis possible without taking your eyes off the board, but as always there are some bugs. I'm aware of:
>
> - Fails to respect "Hide next moves" chapter setting
> - Fails to respect "Show annotations on board" analysis setting
> - Fails to display server eval with blue arrow in studies (appears as pink instead)
> - Can be confusing with browser eval enabled (especially multi-pv)
>
> Anything else aside from grumble grumble why you change things? (That is a valid complaint, don't get me wrong, but at this point we're focused on larger regressions)
First of all, thanks for working on lichess, really appreciate everything you do. I saw your latest PR with the comment "Rename 'best move arrow' setting to 'show move arrows'". Does this mean that you are not planning on separating the two features? (I.e., not being able to use the regular engine arrows without having to see the new colorful ones?). That would be really sad, since analysis with best move arrow is now more or less broken. After using the same analysis board or study for a while, it's common that there will be 10, 20, or even more side variations recorded, which make it a mess when getting the colorful arrows for almost every move.
I'm not the guy who dislikes change. I know the feeling when people complain - I'm a developer myself. But I'm not sure it's clear to everyone how major this change is for us who use analysis/study, with "best move arrow" enabled, many hours a day. It would be really great if there were two settings, one for "best move arrow" and one for "variant arrows".
> The point is to make navigation among variations in analysis possible without taking your eyes off the board, but as always there are some bugs. I'm aware of:
>
> - Fails to respect "Hide next moves" chapter setting
> - Fails to respect "Show annotations on board" analysis setting
> - Fails to display server eval with blue arrow in studies (appears as pink instead)
> - Can be confusing with browser eval enabled (especially multi-pv)
>
> Anything else aside from grumble grumble why you change things? (That is a valid complaint, don't get me wrong, but at this point we're focused on larger regressions)
First of all, thanks for working on lichess, really appreciate everything you do. I saw your latest PR with the comment "Rename 'best move arrow' setting to 'show move arrows'". Does this mean that you are not planning on separating the two features? (I.e., not being able to use the regular engine arrows without having to see the new colorful ones?). That would be really sad, since analysis with best move arrow is now more or less broken. After using the same analysis board or study for a while, it's common that there will be 10, 20, or even more side variations recorded, which make it a mess when getting the colorful arrows for almost every move.
I'm not the guy who dislikes change. I know the feeling when people complain - I'm a developer myself. But I'm not sure it's clear to everyone how major this change is for us who use analysis/study, with "best move arrow" enabled, many hours a day. It would be really great if there were two settings, one for "best move arrow" and one for "variant arrows".
i need to try the features.. the engine arrows already had some color gradients.. more in the transparency and arrow width range... I was assuming that the colors were about user control of own variations. still assuming most likely. but now some posts refer to engine... Perhaps the past transparency and width based signal of ordering of engine multi-PV has been transposed (not chess) into a more user controlable and constrating range of the color tint itself.
if restricted to engine imagination expression, but not user control, i would find the new feature to be of cosmetic change, more than chess thinking ergonomics, on the visual communication side.. So I do need to dive in there.... I also suspect it might be compatible with future or current user created variation control and board representation, as I hope, consolidating ordering and note keeping while thinking on the board... so going there soon. to narrow hypotheses... (i do like make those, from hints...).
if restricted to engine imagination expression, but not user control, i would find the new feature to be of cosmetic change, more than chess thinking ergonomics, on the visual communication side.. So I do need to dive in there.... I also suspect it might be compatible with future or current user created variation control and board representation, as I hope, consolidating ordering and note keeping while thinking on the board... so going there soon. to narrow hypotheses... (i do like make those, from hints...).
@schlawg said in #57:
> The point is to make navigation among variations in analysis possible without taking your eyes off the board
That one sentence.. great.. Thanks to previous poster for raising its visibility.. I trust lichess to keep that intent, showing its awareness and care of the chess thinking process which happens first on the visual perception level of the 2D board. This is making the digital chess age accessible to humans too, and for them. the life improvement promises of new technology, not being an illusion all the time, is kind of fresh air to me. calming down now.... It also confort me in my previous hopeful understanding.
I also think it is good to have these forums threads for such direct feedbackandforth dialogs... where people spell out expectations and intent.. and fears... and disconforts... and knee jerk reactions.. (not judging, just that the full spectrum might be present).
> The point is to make navigation among variations in analysis possible without taking your eyes off the board
That one sentence.. great.. Thanks to previous poster for raising its visibility.. I trust lichess to keep that intent, showing its awareness and care of the chess thinking process which happens first on the visual perception level of the 2D board. This is making the digital chess age accessible to humans too, and for them. the life improvement promises of new technology, not being an illusion all the time, is kind of fresh air to me. calming down now.... It also confort me in my previous hopeful understanding.
I also think it is good to have these forums threads for such direct feedbackandforth dialogs... where people spell out expectations and intent.. and fears... and disconforts... and knee jerk reactions.. (not judging, just that the full spectrum might be present).
@schlawg I saw that you made changes to the PR to now have a showVariationArrows setting. Thank you! Very much appreciated
@achja said in #28:
> Dear Lichess, this is way too much to handle for me (Three arrows and two colored circles with marks in them). It makes, in my opinion, game analysis very tiring and confusing. The previous method was great and perfect. Please think about people who need to minimize input of bright colors and impulses. Thank you.
easy,,
on this position white already played a3 which was a mistake but instead stockfish suggested f3 as best move for white..
the purple arrow in the position is indicating the next move which you played on the game or you did it MANUALLY while analysing your game..
but your purple move was a blunder, that means your next move was a blunder but instead stockfish suggest Ne4 as good next move..
This way, one will see every moves he entered before..
will ease study specially if there's alot of variation..
you won't look at notation pane again but only the board..
..
right now i hope for the backward bottom to send me to the main move if i clicked it once & sends me to the 1st game move if i clicked it for the 2nd time..
engin move arrow annotated by special glyf when you do it as a variation..
resign, draw, timeout & checkmate glyfs on the head of loser king or just crowning the victorious king xd
> Dear Lichess, this is way too much to handle for me (Three arrows and two colored circles with marks in them). It makes, in my opinion, game analysis very tiring and confusing. The previous method was great and perfect. Please think about people who need to minimize input of bright colors and impulses. Thank you.
easy,,
on this position white already played a3 which was a mistake but instead stockfish suggested f3 as best move for white..
the purple arrow in the position is indicating the next move which you played on the game or you did it MANUALLY while analysing your game..
but your purple move was a blunder, that means your next move was a blunder but instead stockfish suggest Ne4 as good next move..
This way, one will see every moves he entered before..
will ease study specially if there's alot of variation..
you won't look at notation pane again but only the board..
..
right now i hope for the backward bottom to send me to the main move if i clicked it once & sends me to the 1st game move if i clicked it for the 2nd time..
engin move arrow annotated by special glyf when you do it as a variation..
resign, draw, timeout & checkmate glyfs on the head of loser king or just crowning the victorious king xd
Would definitely appreciate a way to turn this off (separately to evaluation arrows). My biggest issue with it is that it is overriding and interfering with existing colour coded arrows in studies. All my blue move arrows are now purple, green arrows are brownish pink, etc.
Also want to point out that pressing shift to cycle the selected move arrow seems not ideal as it triggers the default Windows sticky keys shortcut.
Also want to point out that pressing shift to cycle the selected move arrow seems not ideal as it triggers the default Windows sticky keys shortcut.
Plus one for wanting to be able to turn this off. I dont even know what the arrows colours mean, there is no clear legend to them in the analysis mode either.
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